• 8 years ago
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    Question: isn't #Counter-Strike asymmetric, too?
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    • Gries He
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      Gries He
      Editing … Nah, not really. Unless it's possible in counterstrike to play a split-screen match against several people where one is using a smartphone as an input device, another a wiiu gamepad and another guy a keyboard and mouse while wearing a virtual reality headset, I wouldn't refer to it as 'asymmetrical'.
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    • WoodrowShigeru
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      WoodrowShigeru
      Editing … But asymmetrical isn't really about the hardware, it's about the software. Right? One team plants a bomb, the other defuses it. One team holds hostages, the other rescues them. One team escorts a VIP, the other assassinates him.
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    • Sir Larosenin
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      Sir Larosenin
      Editing … That's right PedroJensen
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    • Gries He
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      Gries He
      Editing … It's about how you interact with said software. By your definition every single player game is essentially 'asymmetrical', too because several people can play it at the same time but in different ways.
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    • Sir Larosenin
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      Sir Larosenin
      Editing … Well the concept doesn't apply to single player games...
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    • WoodrowShigeru
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      WoodrowShigeru
      Editing … What do you mean, "at the same time" ? You mean, like Micromachines? Two players on one controller?
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    • Gries He
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      Gries He
      Editing … "Asymmetric game play is when each player or team has a unique set of abilities." - smu.edu
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    • WoodrowShigeru
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      WoodrowShigeru
      Editing … Yes, one team can plant a bomb (counter-strike), which the other can't. — I still don't understand your previous statement about single-player games.
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    • Gries He
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      Gries He
      Editing … Pedro's example is flawed, because while both teams approach a mission differently, they're still playing the same basic game, with the same basic abilities and rule sets and or features. And no, Larosenin, asymmetrical gameplay is in fact possible in singleplayer games: "With the help of the GCN-GBA-Connectivity feature it is possible for the player to make use of the asymmetric gameplay in The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker without the need for an additional human player." - Giantbomb
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    • Gries He
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      Gries He
      Editing … Just because a game features different classes or factions with different skill sets, doesn't make it an asymmetrical experience.
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    • Gries He
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      Gries He
      Editing … Another easy to understand example for asymmetrical gameplay: person a is playing the watchdogs companion app on his phone to alter the gaming experience of person b who plays watchdogs on his ps4. Both are fundamentally different games, but they still interact with each other. That's asymmetrical gameplay.
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    • WoodrowShigeru
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      WoodrowShigeru
      Editing … Talking about asymmetry in single-player scenarios doesn't make any sense, because the asymmetry inherently refers to the multiplayer experience. In your Wind Waker example it's just an extension of single-player gameplay.
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    • WoodrowShigeru
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      WoodrowShigeru
      Editing … So, by your definition, Evolve is an asymmetrical multiplayer game because it's a PC game and everybody has their own monitor and rig, no split-screen – but a 3 vs. 1 minigame in Mario Party is not asymmetrical?
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    • Gries He
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      Gries He
      Editing … Evolve is not an asymmetrical multiplayer game simply because you're playing against people on the internet and everyone has their own gaming pc. everybody in your example is playing the same game against each other, although yes there are different classes with different skills - but this has nothing to do with asymmetricality (is that a word?). If the one person in Mario party has a fundamentally different experience playing the minigame in Mario Party than the three people he's playing against, then yeah you could argue that this makes it an asymmetrical experience, absolutely.
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    • Gries He
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      Gries He
      Editing … Now here's the thing: is there a difference between asymmetrical and asynchronous gameplay?
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    • WoodrowShigeru
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      WoodrowShigeru
      Editing … Asymmetricality is not a word, but asymmetry is.
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    • WoodrowShigeru
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      WoodrowShigeru
      Editing … Evolve *is* an asymmetrical game: "Another good example is the upcoming multiplayer game Evolve, which pits a team of four player-controlled Hunters against a fifth player, who controls a giant Monster character." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asymmetry#Other_uses
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    • WoodrowShigeru
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      WoodrowShigeru
      Editing … You "could" not argue – it IS an asymmetrical experience in Mario Party. Your definition is wrong.
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    • WoodrowShigeru
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      WoodrowShigeru
      Editing … Asynchronous gameplay. Had to look that up. But yeah, it's not the same concept. It's like taking turns, could even happen on the same machine. Similar to how cool people play chess in films: taking weeks for one turn. Asymmetrical gameplay happens for all sides at the same time. That being said, I don't know why you're bringing this up. This has nothing to do with this conversation.
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    • Gries He
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      Gries He
      Editing … I never said it wasn't, evolve is just not an asymmetrical game for the reasons you listed.
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    • Gries He
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      Gries He
      Editing … Deleted by himself
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    • Gries He
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      Gries He
      Editing … Deleted by himself
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    • Gries He
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      Gries He
      Editing … I brought it up because both terms seem to refer to the same basic concept.
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    • Gries He
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      Gries He
      Editing … Asynchronous gameplay, as defined by Nintendo, is multiplayer gaming in which players are experiencing the same game very differently. It is a central feature of the Wii U console, where one player can use a Wii U gamepad while playing with or against players using the Wii remote. For example, in the mini-game Luigi's Ghost Mansion from Nintendo Land, the player using the gamepad is a ghost who can see both himself and the players on the gamepad's touchscreen, while the Wii remote players cannot see the ghost's location on the TV screen http://nintendo.about.com/od/faqs/g/Asynchronous-Gameplay.htm
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    • Gries He
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    • Sir Larosenin
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      Sir Larosenin
      Editing … The Challenges of Asymmetric Multiplayer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2MTkotf-gk
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    • WoodrowShigeru
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      WoodrowShigeru
      Editing … "I never said it wasn't" -- Yes, you did! "Evolve is not an asymmetrical multiplayer game simply because you're playing against people on the internet and everyone has their own gaming pc." Tell me how I have to read this, if not like: "Evolve is not an AG, and here's why: …"
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    • WoodrowShigeru
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      WoodrowShigeru
      Editing … "There are two competing definitions of Asynchronous Gameplay" So, if there's a conflict in definition, we shouldn't use these or even take them for granted until they've been figured out -- other than for discussion and figuring them out, that is.
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    • WoodrowShigeru
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      WoodrowShigeru
      Editing … "Just because a game features different classes or factions with different skill sets, doesn't make it an asymmetrical experience." -- I think that's exactly what asymmetry in multiplayer is all about. Compare any shooter's Team Deathmatch mode, Worms, Bomberman or Street Fighter on the one hand with Natural Selection or Tribes' "Follow the Rabbit" mode on the other. Or even "Mensch, ärgere dich nicht" (every player has the same role, options, abilities, goals) with "Dungeons & Dragons" (one dungeon master vs. the party of heroes). — If not "asymmetric gameplay", how else do you personally call this difference on a software level that I'm talking about?
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    • Gries He
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      Gries He
      Editing … "Evolve IS an AG. Playing against other people over the internet does not make evolve an AG. Using a PC with different specs to compete against others who are also playing on their PCs against me does not make Evolve an AG. What DOES make Evolve an AG is the existence of a multiplayer gameplay section where (I haven't played this game so I'm not comfortable talking about its specifics regarding game design tbh) you're playing as a monster thingamajig against a team of less capable humans or whatever."
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    • Gries He
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      Gries He
      Editing … Nintendo has been using the term "asynchronous gameplay" interchangeably with "asymmetric gameplay" ever since it revealed the Wii u back at e3 2011. That's why I brought it up, and while I realize that this expression also can have a different meaning depending on context, I feel like Nintendo's definition is the one that had the most impact on the gaming scene, after all they based an entire home console on this concept. Again, look at the Wii U's library, there are lots of games that feature asynchronous /asymmetrical gameplay.
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    • Gries He
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      Gries He
      Editing … "I think that's exactly what asymmetry in multiplayer is all about", I get where you're coming from, but your interpretation of the word is too much based on "there's a healer and a sniper on the opposing team? Those guys have therefore a slightly different gameplay experience than our team, which makes this game asymmetrical." whereas asymmetrical multiplayer actually refers to a scenario á la "I'm playing as Luigi in new Super Mario Bros for wiiu using a wiiu pro controller trying to make my way to the end of the level while avoiding enemies. My buddy who's either online or sitting right beside me is helping me out via the use of the Wii u gamepad by creating platforms which he creates by pressing the controller's touchscreen with the stylus. We both have fundamentally different gameplay experiences."
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    • WoodrowShigeru
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      WoodrowShigeru
      Editing … (Just noticed that my earlier post was cut in half): Or even "Mensch, ärgere dich nicht" (every player has the same role, options, abilities, goals) with "Dungeons & Dragons" (one dungeon master vs. the party of heroes). — If not "asymmetric gameplay", what else do you personally call this difference on a software level that I'm talking about?
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    • WoodrowShigeru
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      WoodrowShigeru
      Editing … Then what makes Evolve so different than Counter-Strike, in your eyes? The player count per "team" ? The amount of differing skills? (Btw, I never said that CS is "the ultimate" AG, just that it also is an AG. The circumstance that its AG-ness is very subtle is quite obvious, obviously) — I'm aware that Wii U games emphasize that feature. I was just wondering / contemplating / throwing the question in the round …
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    • WoodrowShigeru
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      WoodrowShigeru
      Editing … … whether or not CS is one, too. Nintendo hasn't invented the idea. Even #Hide and Seek is asymmetrical.
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    • WoodrowShigeru
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    • WoodrowShigeru
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      WoodrowShigeru
      Editing … I'd like to know what the basis for your "interpretation" is.
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    • Gries He
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      Gries He
      Editing … Unicorns
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