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Saved!Now that i think about i believe its unfair to have the description of the page be linked to a clearly biased wiki page. I'm fine with leaving it up to
SpoilerGamergate (sometimes referred to as GamerGate or as a hashtag #gamergate) is a controversy in video game culture which began in August 2014. It concerns ingrained issues of sexism and misogyny in the gaming community, as well as journalistic ethics in the online gaming press, particularly conflicts of interest between video game journalists and developers.
Even though i believe the "It concerns ingrained issues of sexism and misogyny in the gaming community" is bullshit id leave it in for people who want to believe its about misogyny. I would rather have the journalistic ethics part first.
@Pape Badiane-
Saved!Gries HeEditing … So you advocate revisionism and censorship simply because you don't agree with one article hosted on one of the top 10 most popular websites on the internet, nice. Wasn't the whole point of gamergate to further journalistic integrity? Why do you fail to see the irony here? -
Saved!DoubleagentEditing … It's not 'revisionism' if the data presented is wrong in the first place, it's correction... It would "further journalistic integrity" by having the article actually represent what happened instead of it just being a smear campaign. -
Saved!Rich .Editing … Regardless of what else you think gamergate was about I thought it was pretty clear cut that Quinn was on the receiving end of a tonne of sexist abuse. -
Saved!DoubleagentEditing … There is a bit of a difference between stating that an entire movement is a hate campaign and making note of someone who has been entirely irrelevant to Gamergate for an extended period of time. Look at the links under "Just getting up to speed with GamerGate?" on KotakuInAction if you want to know what is actually going on. GamerGhazi is the page that contains the opposite point of view so you can also look there is if you want to see what the 'other side' is saying.
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Saved!Rich .Editing … It's beyond me why people are still trying to make gamergate into an ongoing campaign when the name almost immediately became associated with sexism. Why not pick a different name for your movement and distance yourselves from the hate campaign?
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Saved!DoubleagentEditing … You don't just backdown when people are lying about you or they will just do it again. If gamergate dissolved and switched names it would basically be saying that these lies were valid complaints. "Well none of this is true but we will change the name of our movement anyway." would not exactly be making a strong point. Here is some link I found where people are talking about changing the tag and the various reasons as to why it has not happened. http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2jv6th/why_do_you_hold_on_to_the_gamergate_name/
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Saved!Billy McKennaEditing … If a sexist prick threatens women online and also claims to be a diehard supporter of the trade unions, does that mean trade unions are a movement about sexism? No, it just means there are sexist pricks in the world and they can have any political opinions the wish too. Hitler was a vegetarian, does that mean all vegetarians are nazi's? Exactly. Gamergate is about journalistic integrity, it has fuck all to do with sexism and feminism. Can these annoying professional victim feminist man-hating bitches kindly fuck off and stop making everything about them; and can the sexist pricks threatening, harrassing and stalking women online also fuck off and stop hiding behind our movement, YO DO NOT REPRESENT US YOU SKUM! Seriously, they even harrassed people like Felicia Day for fuck sake. A delightful, open, female gamer, who's done nothing but promote gaming and make fun media... If you're threatened by her thenwhat the hell is your problem?!
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Saved!Rich .Editing … Yeah I see where you're coming from about the principle of not working around slander Louis but the thing is people who identified themselves as part of gamergate (not saying they represented it well but all the same) have been very sexist and coloured everyone's opinions of what gamergate is when gamergate was at what will probably end up being its peak in terms of publicity. Odds are the name's beyond saving but even if you disagree it'll be an uphill battle trying to redeem it and it makes more sense to be pragmatic and make a new name so you can campaign about gaming journalism more effectively.
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Saved!Rich .Editing … Billy, I can't tell if you're just loud/passionate/uncouth or if you've got anger management issues.
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Saved!Billy McKennaEditing … Yes it does, and sadly many people on YouTube like TotalBiscuit, Angry Joe, Jim Stirling and Razorfist outright support gamergate in principle, but refuse to align themselves with the movement because sexist pricks and neo-feminist bitches took it upon themselves to usurp the movement. Listen to what they say and all four are prominent YouTubers who speak out against corruption in games media but none of the identity with gamergate... sad really, it means the trolls, bigots and arseholes won.
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Saved!Billy McKennaEditing … Honestly richard, I'm both loud/passionate and have quite extensive anger issues; though neither lessens my point here.
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Saved!AramondeEditing … SpoilerIt's not 'revisionism' if the data presented is wrong in the first place, it's correction... It would "further journalistic integrity" by having the article actually represent what happened instead of it just being a smear campaign. WINNER WINNER CHICKEN DINNER!!! -
Saved!AramondeEditing … Spoiler Regardless of what else you think gamergate was about I thought it was pretty clear cut that Quinn was on the receiving end of a tonne of sexist abuse. *facepalm*Oh Rene Ren Ren, And what about people who are pro GG or neutral (like TB) get abuse? Do they cry from the rooftops? If your a public figure your going to get hate mail on the internet. It so sad to see people who i know are smart fall for the professional Damsel in Distress routine. ----- Also Rene changing the name of GG wouldn't do anything. Once the professional victims and their buddies in the gaming media learned about they would just link it with GG anyway.
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Saved!DoubleagentEditing … Now that you mention it I can totally see the "Evil Gamergoobers try and hide misogynistic anti womyn crusade under new name, don't be fooled! (Also donate to my Patreon!)" spin that they would put on it from here already.
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Saved!AramondeEditing … lol Louis you are one of my favorite people on this site XD
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Saved!Rich .Editing … *counter facepalm* Okay Ara so point by point #1) A lot of people get abuse on the internet (sad but true although I don't think that makes it okay when we're talking doxing, rape threats and death threats rather than indiscriminate trolling or a 13 year old that thinks swearing is edgy) #2) With public figures it's especially normal to get abuse on the net (again sad but true although that doesn't make it okay. Besides I'd never heard of Zoe Quinn before GG and I haven't heard about her since and I'm very into gaming. How famous is she really? Surely it was more that she fitted the SJW cliche and then the sleeping with a reviewer for favours story - which as far as I know her ex-BF made up - made her a target?) #3) It's a damsel in distress routine actively trying to discredit an honest anti game journalism corruption campaign (c'mon Ara this point contradicts with the first two where you're acknowledging there was sexism, you really think it's a conspiracy and not women who sexists within the GG campaign attacked and provoked?)
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Saved!Billy McKennaEditing … Did Zoe Quinn and others get threats and harrassment that is unacceptable under any circumstances? Probably. Are new wave feminist groups and right wing "father knows best" groups using it as an excuse to scapegoat and censor video games? Absolutely. Are games media sites and publishers using this opportunity to bribe and cheat their way to good reviews and hype coverage safe in the knowledge that anyone who questioned them is in the eyes of the media instantly a sexist... somehow? Hell yes. Is is such a stretch that the games media and indie gaming scene, based largely in San Francisco, and the neo feminist political movement, also with strong roots and influence in San Francisco; are to some degree doing this on purpose? Considering how many games media personalities and indie devs self identify as feminists, it's not like the two groups don't have crossover. Now, does this justify the threats? Of course not... but I'm here to argue for journalistic integrity, and that's still not being addressed because women with a victim complex have to make everything about their vagina. I don't care about their gender, I care about their integrity.
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Saved!Rich .Editing … That's my point though Billy, I agree that some game journalists and publishers are way too cosy with each other and a campaign about that's a good idea. Right now the Gamergate label that campaign's trying to operate under is tarnished and easily dismissable though because some idiots identifying with that label from a while back when GG was at what so far's been its peak in terms of publicity were very publicly abusive to women and that's ended up being all almost everyone that isn't part of GG knows about it. Can unprejudiced people actually concerned about games journalism keep using the GG label to campaign and get through the uphill struggle of that label already being associated with sexism to make a difference? Maybe. Would they have a better chance if they dropped the GG label and ran a campaign that's clearly distinct from those idiots a few months back and hence clearly all about game journalism? I'd definitely say so.
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Saved!Billy McKennaEditing … Well regardless, this is fragmented now so the anti-GG campaign has won. Important media personalities who campaign for journalistic integrity, including Jeff Gerstmann, Jim Sterling, John Bain (TotalBiscuit), Joe Vargas (Angry Joe), and more; refuse to use the Gamergate label, and female allies of the cause like Felicia Day have been actively harrassed by sexist pricks claiming to be part of the Gamergate movement. That said, there's a lot of organization in Gamergate and people don't want to abandon that. Their aim is to become a political interest group and lobbyist group supporting journalistic standards, corporate regulation and internet freedoms. These may not be life and death issues, but they are important; and some people don't want to let fear-mongerers, scapegoaters, and neo-feminist liars destroy their movement... Sad thing is it's already a mess of lies and people taking advantage.
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Saved!AramondeEditing … I never said it was ok but what you and other people don't seem to understand was that people on BOTH sides were getting abused and doxxed. The reason you never hear about GGers getting abuse is because its not getting reported by gaming news sites and they don't yell and scream about it and just move on. I think most of these attacks that happen to people on both sides are just third party trolls getting there kicks. ------ "which as far as I know her ex-BF made up - made her a target" Where did you hear this from? The reputable game sites that were backing her? SJW Twitter?---- I first heard about Quinn from a stories where she claimed she was being harassed by people on a site called wizardchan which proved to be false. Her game got funded and everyone on that site got shit from everyone in the games media. Also that site has a lot of people so suffer from suicidal depression! But im sure you didn't hear about that huh. And funny you talk about provoking when Brinna Wu one of the poor poor girls that's getting attacked says on twitter "BRING IT ON!!!" to GGers. ---- At this point people identifying as GG are doing it more in discussion so we can share information. I don't think we can 100% redeem the name but even setting the record straight where we helps.
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Saved!WhiteSnakeEditing … Throughout all of this, the thing I hate the most about all this is not that Anita tells me to limit my overall artistic freedom (Really, I'll honestly never give a shit about her opinions / "offended feelings"), but that her followers are actively trying to "phase" out / ban certain ideas off the table. It's like, I can't ignore her like I can with other retarded critics out there, because these fuckers are simply Incapable of allowing their "progressive" games to coexist peacefully with what they consider "offensive" ones. Nooooo, let's just ban GTA V and Hotline Miami 2 in Australia, despite being entertaining games that are relatively a cut above the rest. -
Saved!Billy McKennaEditing … The thing is Rosso, every group I oppose seems to want to ban things, censor things, or suppress things... which boiled down, leads me to one conclusion. I'm anti-authoritarian. I'm a libertarian (and by that I mean an ACTUAL libertarian, not the warped bullshit Americans think that word means). I'm very much a believer in the statement that people should be allowed to do anything so long as it harms no-one else (unless they consent), including; within reason anothers property and livelihood. I don't care how offended someone is, you can do whatever you want. This extends to so many areas that are perplexingly still political issues; gay rights, drug laws, BDSM, violent/explicit media, prostitution, and more... and the issues involving video games clearly fit.
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