• 9 years ago
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    “Games culture is a petri dish of people who know so little about how human social interaction and professional life works that they can concoct online 'wars' about social justice or game journalism ethics, straight-faced, and cause genuine human consequences. Because of video games.”

    - Leigh Alexander, Gamasutra
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    • Firion Hope
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      Firion Hope
      Editing … I'm not mad at you at all, but that kind of quote really ticks me off. I genuinely hope anyone like him/her that generalizes gamers like that and insults them loses their jobs and don't get rehired. That kind of sick us vs them antagonizing and generalizing attitude games press have shown in the past couple weeks is literally everything wrong with the gaming industry. All because people have the audacity to point out how biased the vast majority of the gaming press is and show genuine cases of corruption and important news stories which no major gaming news sites have had the balls to cover. I could really go on about this because it makes me fucking sick but I'll just point out that people like that want to be considered professional "journalists" whenever it suits them and they can get free review copies and passes to parties with a bunch of free alcohol and etc., but they don't want to have any sort of integrity or accountability, if you point out something wrong they're "just bloggers" and you're a bully. "Just games" are these people's entire careers and the only reason they have food on their tables each nights yet they still feel the need to constantly piss on the people who support them. If "gaming culture" or "gamers" really are soooo awful then piss off and leave it to the people who actually do like games. (that's aimed at them)
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    • Explojin
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      Explojin
      Editing … While that particular quote doesn't sound to good on it's own, I did agree with a bunch of the points he made in his article.
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    • Aramonde
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    • Aramonde
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    • Aramonde
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    • Aramonde
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    • Firion Hope
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      Firion Hope
      Editing … That article is particularly bad, but it's not limited to just that. Yes there are some bad apples that do horrible things as there is in any group but if you went off what sites told you, you wouldn't know there's just as many bad apples on BOTH sides. I've seen similar pieces on Kotaku and Polygon aswell in the past couple days also saying how gamers are horrible awful people. This is the prevailing attitude, that games journalists are "holier than thou" and much better than the filthy peasants that give them money and support. They constantly berate the people whos interests they're supposed to serve yet have the audacity to whine about people using adblock and they wonder why they have to keep cutting staff left and right while LPers (who do the job GJs are supposed to do much better than them) make millions. I honestly think the future is in users hands, the trash most professional games journalists put out is much worse then community run blogs on the very same sites. I've already seen various disgruntled users turn away from mainstream sites and turn to blogs and niche sites, and that's what I've done. If this recent incident doesn't show you something is seriously wrong then nothing will. Anyway I got kinda off topic there but yeah those are my thoughts/feelings. Also I'm going to try and go to sleep so I won't be able to respond if anyone has questions or something
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    • Doubleagent
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      Doubleagent
      Editing … Just to point out that Gamasutra is one of the sites that got caught out doing all of this censoring nonsense that's been going on. Them going "waah I don't like all the people that are making us look bad, they are the enemy / their points are invalid / it's just games / ignore them." is not a particularly surprising turn of events. http://makealist.com/content/quinngategamergate-boycott-list
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    • Gries He
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      Gries He
      Editing … Did ... did you just show your support for an industry wide blacklist? What decade is this? I didn't realize witch hunts were still a thing
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    • Doubleagent
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      Doubleagent
      Editing … No? it's a just a list. I don't need to boycott things I don't even use. Nice sidestepping though.
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    • Gries He
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      Gries He
      Editing … "waah they are the enemy / their points are invalid" - Well then what exactly is your point? Honest question, there's no reason to be defensive ; Harassing people is an awful thing to do, this hobby should be more inclusive. We should cherish diversity but instead we're here talking about how much sex a female game developer had and about how much major gaming news outlets suck. Talk about completely missing the point. Smear campaigns like this are disgusting and everyone who participates in them should feel ashamed.
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    • Doubleagent
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      Doubleagent
      Editing … My point is quite clear 1) "Just to point out that Gamasutra is one of the sites that got caught out doing all of this censoring nonsense that's been going on." Gamasutra is involved in censoring, they are attempting to protect their own best interests. 2) Them coming out and saying "No really guys anyone that says bad things about the us or the people we are involved with is stupid, it's just games right?" is not very surprising because all they are trying to do it cover their own asses. 3) The definition of smear campaign is "unfair or untrue political attack". I'll think you will find that the ones doing the smearing are sites like Gamasutra as others are trying to bring the facts to light and they are trying to discredit them with falsehoods. 4) "Talk about completely missing the point." Yes you have missed the point, "talking about how much sex a female game developer had and about how much major gaming news outlets suck." No, It's about corruption and false media. You could replace Zoe, sex and gaming with other topics and it would still be about the same thing. When people are doing bad things that hurt the community as a whole it is important to bring them to light so that they stop doing those things.
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    • Gries He
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      Gries He
      Editing … What exactly do you mean when you use the word "corruption"? Censorship? Bribery?
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    • Gries He
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      Gries He
      Editing … http://bit.ly/1qK0lF2 -> This is the real issue here, the mental abuse everyone who even remotely tries to challenge the status quo has to deal with on a daily basis. These misogynistic, self-conscious, scared, partriarchal motherfuckers can suck my dick. How pathetic do you have to be to threaten someone ("I'm going to rape you and kill your family" etc) just because you disagree with a YouTube video or an article on a website?
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    • Doubleagent
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      Doubleagent
      Editing … (I'm actually at work so response times are going to be a little spotty) Sure corruption covers a wide range of things and if you want to oversimplify it basically boils down to "dishonest actions" you could even stretch it a little and add "for personal gain" at the end if you wanted.
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    • Doubleagent
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      Doubleagent
      Editing … Two sides to every coin, http://i.imgur.com/p6eaary.jpg Anita does not exactly have the most reputable legacy when it comes to lying to further her own agenda. You have to be really pathetic to threaten anyone with that kind of thing, no one is disagreeing with that.
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    • Gries He
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      Gries He
      Editing … imgur is blocked at work, could you tell me what that pic is about?
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    • Doubleagent
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      Doubleagent
      Editing … I'm in the middle of something at work right now and it would be really conspicuous to rehost the image. Anyone want to do the honours? (I can do it in about five hours ><)
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    • rockshard PhD
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      rockshard PhD
      Editing … his pic shows why your Kevin Dobson pic is fake. not logged in, nothing in search field, last tweet was mere seconds before screencap, the tweets are seconds apart and perfect spelling/capitalization.
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    • Alianger
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    • Gries He
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      Gries He
      Editing … Oh right, it was all a hoax. Of course. People just make this stuff up, there's no harassment and bullying against minorities and/or women going on at all. Nuh uh, no sir.
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    • rockshard PhD
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      rockshard PhD
      Editing … But wasn't it confirmed that Zoe Quinn faked abuse (or had someone else fake it) in order to gain publicity? Because if she did then we may have to look at abuse in a different context.
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    • Filly Vanilli
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      Filly Vanilli
      Editing … "If "gaming culture" or "gamers" really are soooo awful then piss off and leave it to the people who actually do like games." Wow, guys... once again, the concept of "you can like something (in this case gaming culture) while still critiquing it and admitting parts of it are problematic" seems positively alien to you. And then gamers wonder why people outside of the community think we're immature? Pfft.
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    • Doubleagent
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      Doubleagent
      Editing … Guys you really are missing the point. The point is that these people are only here to take advantage, they are not constructive members of the community. It's like asking a king why he is not letting the besieging army into the castle. They want to ransack the city for it's riches and then leave. Not become citizens.
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    • Filly Vanilli
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      Filly Vanilli
      Editing … How are these people the enemy by pointing out problems in the community? Oh no they want to make the community a happier and more inclusive place, so threatening! Did you put on your tinfoil hat yet...?
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    • Doubleagent
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      Doubleagent
      Editing … I'm not going to recount the entire Zoe Quinn saga in these comments, they are here solely to turn a profit via exploitation and right now the target is gaming. Looking at the bigger picture it has nothing to do with making the community inclusive. In fact it has almost nothing to do with the gaming community at all as I stated earlier to Gries. It is fact that Zoe Quinn and co were/are bullshitting the gaming community and trying to manipulate people for their own benefit. I encourage anyone to go and search out fact based evidence in relation to this as opposed to opinion pieces if they care enough about what is going on. Don't just binldly listen to me, Filly, Gries, anyone. Go and find out on your own.
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    • Alianger
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      Alianger
      Editing … Regarding Quinn, I think both sides of that discussion make some good points, but it's not really fair to say that she doesn't contribute *at all* when she's a game dev who released her game for free (?), a game which seems to explore some new ground to boot.
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    • Firion Hope
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      Firion Hope
      Editing … Dem 25 notifications from a single thread. If any of you REALLY do care about this issue enough to actually be knowledgeable about it then here, this is another forum I post on that has pretty much all the info on it. Read as much as you'd like http://forum.destructoid.com/showthread.php?39008-Gaming-Media-Controversy that's about the only place that hasn't censored the issue btw, which that in and of itself is a symptom of a huge problem. You'll also see there that pretty much everyone agrees no one cares about who Zoe sleeps with, that's never been the problem and it's just a lazy way to deflect from the real issue. I won't comment on all of this but since you addressed my post directly Stephanie, there's a difference between critiquing something and being completely antagonistic and acting holier than thou. Games Journalism has done the latter time and time again, always in a disrespectful way that accuses anyone who disagrees with them of horrible things. These pieces aren't saying that some people on both sides are doing bad things, they're saying anyone who's considers themselves a gamer is a piece of shit, doubly so if they don't align with SJW thinking. You ask how they're enemies by pointing out problems in the community (only one side of the community of course), I counter with why are we treated like their enemy for pointing out their problems such as lack of integrity and standards, or the fact that gaming journalism is basically one big clique.
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    • Firion Hope
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      Firion Hope
      Editing … Oh Since I don't have anywhere else to put this, check this out. I think you'll REALLY like it @Doubleagent Louis http://nastythingssaidabout.wordpress.com/2014/08/26/the-terrible-misogyny-in-the-games-industry/
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    • Doubleagent
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      Doubleagent
      Editing … Dang that is one long piece of text. I will read the entire thing later but I've just gotten home from my job that involves reading all day ^^. I do particularly like this part though, I've struggled to put a similar sentiment into words before. "Don’t confuse the choice of stick with the reason for wanting to beat you with it in the first place." Dickheads will be dickheads.
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